If I like an author’s previous work, I’ll read their next one, even if it’s in a different genre. I realize I am not your average reader, but I am not a genre loyalist. I like reading things that make me feel deeply. That can happen in any genre.
And honestly, writing in the same genre isn’t a guarantee I’ll like the author’s works. Some prominent authors come to mind whose most famous works I adored, but then they wrote another book in the same genre, and something about the subject matter or style didn’t resonate with me. Reading a book is a leap of faith. There’s no formula to guarantee whether or not you’ll like something. I understand why publishers would want to label writers for branding, but there’s no reason why readers should.
It would be interesting to do a study on this, Tara, because I wonder how many readers share your perspective. The first book I read from R.F Kwang was commercial fiction and the other two were fantasy. I enjoyed them all but maybe you and I are in the minority. To Sanjida's point, she was put off from her author switching genres. Maybe it's just a thing where if the author jumps to a genre you don't like, you won't read it. Like if I didn't enjoy fantasy, maybe I wouldn't have enjoyed Kwang's other two novels. From the publishers perspective, I think they prefer to control variances so they can increase predictability of outcome (sales). I get it, but I wonder if they are overplaying how diverse readers are in their reading. Then again, I know fantasy readers who won't really read anything else so who knows.
Good points Tara and Kern! I generally try and read anything an author has written if Ioved their first book, even if it’s in a different genre. I don’t think I’m typical in that either Like some fantasy readers, many crime fiction readers often don’t want to read outside that genre. Massive over generalisation I know…but my publishers felt my thriller readers, for instance, would be very genre loyal. And as for the nature writer I quoted, they felt their nature readers wouldn’t come with them. I guess I was put off by two people writing together, when Helen MacDonald’s own voice is so strong and unique.
Great post. I tell new writers not to be me, lol. I write romance fiction contemporary but in all different heat levels and now women's fic so I've had to be super careful branding my website with so many different types of series. I do believe it's important to write what you want and not get branded as one thing - so I've learned to have certain expectations when I go out of my lane but I also have no regrets. I think switching up genres can be freeing especially if a writer is stuck. But it's definitely harder to publish. Right now, my publisher has branded me a women's fic Italy author but after a certain amount of books, I may be looking to change again. It's another reason I love being hybrid because I can control what I write on the indie side!
I like that - have certain expectations when you go off-brand but also no regrets. Sounds like a motto for life. So it sounds like you're published by a mainstream publisher and self-published? Is it hard to manage all the promotion?
Yes I’m both. Traditional offers me a built in team with certain reach that helps print and self pubbiing gives me more control and flexibility over how I want to market where I focus more on digital since I control the pricing. I think it’s made me stronger in marketing and branding balancing different books and publishers.
This is absolutely why I self-publish. I hold my own work to the standards of traditional publishing, but I’m not restricted to a genre (or sub-genre, in my case, as everything I write is fantasy in some shape or form.) I started out publishing urban fantasy…now I’ve moved to cozy and epic. I would be so bored if I was forced into a box of urban fantasy for the rest of my life.
I’ve never yet received an email or message from a fan being upset that I switched sub-genres, and I don’t track subscribers and stuff so closely that I’d notice. It very well may help I’m staying within the same over arching genre…I also try to make sure every story, regardless of the sub-genre, has my voice and the things I’m known for. So far people seem to be enjoying things!
Do you think it's because you're still writing in the overall genre of fantasy? I know there's lots of sub-genres, but if you made a radical switch I wonder what would happen? I know what you mean about voice and so on - but I've found that I've also needed to shift my voice and style somewhat when writing in a different genre.
That is possible. I have to admit that I’m not sure, but I do know that even in the fantasy sub-genres, there are some fans who will only read one sub-genre. (I have friends who track things better who know they lost readers when they moved sub-genres.) It’s also possible that my smaller audience is because people see I switch around and therefore don’t bother to follow my work.
Honestly, I just tend to not think about it too much. I tend to be my first audience and write what I’m interested/enjoy anyway, so anyone who wants to join in that journey is a bonus in my eyes.
I once attended a masterclass by author Janette Turner Hospital. After I read out a section of my novel she said ‘this is genre writing’ other class members gave me filthy looks that said ‘what are you doing here?’ until she followed it up with the comment ‘it’s polished, mellifluous prose’.
Ouch!! Well done for having polished, mellifluous prose though! Certainly an uncalled-for comment. I would argue that literary fiction - which is what I imagine she was 'teaching' - is also a genre. And there is nothing wrong in writing other genre fiction. You have be extremely smart to write a book in a specific genre, meet all the hidden expectations that readers and publishers want, and still innovate.
While I have yet to finish writing any of the fiction I have started, what I have outlined for other ideas could all probably be put in the same genre.
But I mostly write memoir and personal essay/CNF. So I have always wondered what kind of writer I am! And if I could successfully write and publish both fiction and my CNF.
Now you've got me thinking. All good thoughts, maybe going for finishing some fiction this year, as well as memoir. 😃
As long as they're all good thoughts, Kristin, we've done our job. Sanjida has such an intriguing experience in her career as an author that her piece really does force you to at least consider genre. And now she will be releasing her next series over Substack so another experience that I'm sure will be fascinating.
Thanks Kern and Kristin. I'd say go for it, if you want to publish fiction and CNF! I'm really stepping outside my genre and publishing a nature memoir on Substack at the moment, if you're interested: https://sanjidakay.substack.com/p/wilderness-book
Great post Kern for the clarity and an understanding of your personal (writers in general) ambitions.
I agree: do what you do and look after number one, no one else will.
I just had a light globe moment.
I would like to entertain the idea that Genre is a House ( or maybe an apartment?).
Whilst the style of Housing can be varied; to each there own tastes, it still has the basic functions of bedrooms, kitchen, living area etc. These are essential requirements everybody desires, and in Housing crisis; read shortage in late stage capitalism. People will buy no matter the style a place to live in; a place to escape the daily small absurdities of life and a place to call home.
The same for reading, I guess.
This is inspired by Epictetus:
"There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things which are beyond the power or our will. It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."
Is my metaphor suitable ?
How about.
Or if one expresses concerns a lot; the squeaky wheel will get the Oil, will be a lot or a little ? Such is life.
You can apply inspired stoicism everywhere for your sanity and over thinking.
Hahha you always write with so much Irony, Nicholas. Love it! I'm not so sure it's a matter of worrying as it is ensuring you find some kind of balance. As Sanjida says, you can write what you want, but there are consequences. If you're okay with the consequences, then write to your heart's content.
Great metaphor, Nicolas. I might have to borrow it! Although perhaps some genre 'houses' might be quite scary to walk through - holes in the top floor for horror, perhaps. I also like the quote by Epictetus. In my own work and writing I try and adopt the attitude that all I can control is my writing. I can't control what happens to it when it leaves my desk. In spite of my husband constantly asking when I'm going to get a movie deal!
I am impressed with holes in the floor you saw in tghe top floor - you have something there!
Oh, If you happen to get a million dollar advance or movie deal, all I ask is for ten dollars; the compensation rate for writing that paragraph in 20 seconds.
Reasonable ?
Did you husband really say that ? I had to laugh, as my wife said something similar.
She said why don't you write a TV series?
I said I do not write TV series and what do you write again ? she said.
I write anything that touches my soul and what is that exactly ? she said unconvinced.
I want to write about personal history and experiences of a trip I am planning soon in search of the miraculous in mysterious East. It will be a long trip. I plan to travel to Egypt, India, Sri Lanka and finally to Russia, Essentuki to taste the carbonated water there.
I hope in my travels I encounter Esotericm which I have no knowledge or understanding of. So deary, I am after all still a knowledge worker; producer, creator. No different to my old corporate job except no one tells me what to do now.
Can I be your travel buddy she said, it sound like an interesting project.
I said No, you are a bad traveler and suffer from horrible jet lag.
How did that sound Sanjida ? I can write cross genre if I want to.
I think the holes suddenly appear as you're walking so you don't know if you're going to fall through or not! Deal $10 if I get a movie deal. So funny. My daughter has now started saying the same thing. She has a list - hot tub, horse...all when the movie deal happens. I think you should take your wife. It'll up the comedy factor. Scully to your Mulder?
This is such an interesting discussion, Sanjida! I think understanding genre and the conventions of different genres is important. Readers who are passionate about a genre will expect certain characteristics and moments to appear in a book or story of that type.
Thank you, Steph. I think you're right - the passionate types know what they've signed up for! Nice to meet you by the way, I'm hoping to write an article soon on fairy tales in fiction. All my thrillers are inspired by fairy tales in some way.
Nice to meet you as well! An article on fairy tales in fiction sounds interesting--I'll keep an eye out for it. Fairy tales and folktales can offer wonderful inspiration for character, setting, plot points, and even narrative techniques.
This is such an important discussion and relevant for indie authors as well—I’ve had the luck of being somewhat successful with my indie debut series which is a lower YA; I’m slowly transitioning into NA this year without moving to another pen name (since I’m still writing the same genre, just aged up). I’m a little stressed about the consequences of straying from the “clean” brand I’ve built, even as I’m doing my due diligence in labeling/categorizing my NA books properly. I’m willing to take the risk to build a different audience for the fiction I wanna write. We’ll see how that goes for me 😅
I think you're taking all the right steps, Ireen. I think you're gonna be just fine, although it's interesting that this is such a concern, even with indie authors.
I didn't attempt to publish the first book I wrote because I was afraid I'd get stuck in the YA Science Fiction genre. I then wrote a historical fiction series which is being published, but now I wonder if I can go back. I haven't made money from the series, so I will write what I am into. I enjoy emotional literary fiction, whatever the genre.
This is such a great post, it hit home. I like writing all kinds of things, I genre hop, from poetry to spicy shorts, and everything in between including articles on translation theory and children’s books. I was thinking of just publishing everything under my name. But now I know perhaps my idea of pen names was the right one after all. Thank you so much for sharing this.
Thank you, Sofia. I love that - genre hop. To be honest, I wish I still had my own name for all my writing. It was my publishers who insisted I changed and have a different surname for the psychological thrillers. But there are advantages to having pen names and thus separate brands too. Let us know how you get on!
If I like an author’s previous work, I’ll read their next one, even if it’s in a different genre. I realize I am not your average reader, but I am not a genre loyalist. I like reading things that make me feel deeply. That can happen in any genre.
And honestly, writing in the same genre isn’t a guarantee I’ll like the author’s works. Some prominent authors come to mind whose most famous works I adored, but then they wrote another book in the same genre, and something about the subject matter or style didn’t resonate with me. Reading a book is a leap of faith. There’s no formula to guarantee whether or not you’ll like something. I understand why publishers would want to label writers for branding, but there’s no reason why readers should.
It would be interesting to do a study on this, Tara, because I wonder how many readers share your perspective. The first book I read from R.F Kwang was commercial fiction and the other two were fantasy. I enjoyed them all but maybe you and I are in the minority. To Sanjida's point, she was put off from her author switching genres. Maybe it's just a thing where if the author jumps to a genre you don't like, you won't read it. Like if I didn't enjoy fantasy, maybe I wouldn't have enjoyed Kwang's other two novels. From the publishers perspective, I think they prefer to control variances so they can increase predictability of outcome (sales). I get it, but I wonder if they are overplaying how diverse readers are in their reading. Then again, I know fantasy readers who won't really read anything else so who knows.
Good points Tara and Kern! I generally try and read anything an author has written if Ioved their first book, even if it’s in a different genre. I don’t think I’m typical in that either Like some fantasy readers, many crime fiction readers often don’t want to read outside that genre. Massive over generalisation I know…but my publishers felt my thriller readers, for instance, would be very genre loyal. And as for the nature writer I quoted, they felt their nature readers wouldn’t come with them. I guess I was put off by two people writing together, when Helen MacDonald’s own voice is so strong and unique.
Great post. I tell new writers not to be me, lol. I write romance fiction contemporary but in all different heat levels and now women's fic so I've had to be super careful branding my website with so many different types of series. I do believe it's important to write what you want and not get branded as one thing - so I've learned to have certain expectations when I go out of my lane but I also have no regrets. I think switching up genres can be freeing especially if a writer is stuck. But it's definitely harder to publish. Right now, my publisher has branded me a women's fic Italy author but after a certain amount of books, I may be looking to change again. It's another reason I love being hybrid because I can control what I write on the indie side!
I like this, Jennifer. Write what you want but find different ways to do it because publishers do seem to have an expectation.
Yes exactly!
I like that - have certain expectations when you go off-brand but also no regrets. Sounds like a motto for life. So it sounds like you're published by a mainstream publisher and self-published? Is it hard to manage all the promotion?
Yes I’m both. Traditional offers me a built in team with certain reach that helps print and self pubbiing gives me more control and flexibility over how I want to market where I focus more on digital since I control the pricing. I think it’s made me stronger in marketing and branding balancing different books and publishers.
This is absolutely why I self-publish. I hold my own work to the standards of traditional publishing, but I’m not restricted to a genre (or sub-genre, in my case, as everything I write is fantasy in some shape or form.) I started out publishing urban fantasy…now I’ve moved to cozy and epic. I would be so bored if I was forced into a box of urban fantasy for the rest of my life.
Do you ever wondered about fans being taken off guard, or are fantasy fans a bit more open to jumping sub genres?
I’ve never yet received an email or message from a fan being upset that I switched sub-genres, and I don’t track subscribers and stuff so closely that I’d notice. It very well may help I’m staying within the same over arching genre…I also try to make sure every story, regardless of the sub-genre, has my voice and the things I’m known for. So far people seem to be enjoying things!
Do you think it's because you're still writing in the overall genre of fantasy? I know there's lots of sub-genres, but if you made a radical switch I wonder what would happen? I know what you mean about voice and so on - but I've found that I've also needed to shift my voice and style somewhat when writing in a different genre.
That is possible. I have to admit that I’m not sure, but I do know that even in the fantasy sub-genres, there are some fans who will only read one sub-genre. (I have friends who track things better who know they lost readers when they moved sub-genres.) It’s also possible that my smaller audience is because people see I switch around and therefore don’t bother to follow my work.
Honestly, I just tend to not think about it too much. I tend to be my first audience and write what I’m interested/enjoy anyway, so anyone who wants to join in that journey is a bonus in my eyes.
"I cited Margaret Atwood in my defence, who writes science fiction (not that she calls it science fiction), historical, and literary fiction."
Besides being a prolific poet (how she started her career) and essayist. And a true anchor figure of Canadian literature.
True anchor figure, indeed David!
She’s my hero. I love everything I’ve read of hers.
I once attended a masterclass by author Janette Turner Hospital. After I read out a section of my novel she said ‘this is genre writing’ other class members gave me filthy looks that said ‘what are you doing here?’ until she followed it up with the comment ‘it’s polished, mellifluous prose’.
Ouch!! Well done for having polished, mellifluous prose though! Certainly an uncalled-for comment. I would argue that literary fiction - which is what I imagine she was 'teaching' - is also a genre. And there is nothing wrong in writing other genre fiction. You have be extremely smart to write a book in a specific genre, meet all the hidden expectations that readers and publishers want, and still innovate.
While I have yet to finish writing any of the fiction I have started, what I have outlined for other ideas could all probably be put in the same genre.
But I mostly write memoir and personal essay/CNF. So I have always wondered what kind of writer I am! And if I could successfully write and publish both fiction and my CNF.
Now you've got me thinking. All good thoughts, maybe going for finishing some fiction this year, as well as memoir. 😃
As long as they're all good thoughts, Kristin, we've done our job. Sanjida has such an intriguing experience in her career as an author that her piece really does force you to at least consider genre. And now she will be releasing her next series over Substack so another experience that I'm sure will be fascinating.
Oh, then I think I'll have to keep an eye out for that series.
Thanks Kern and Kristin. I'd say go for it, if you want to publish fiction and CNF! I'm really stepping outside my genre and publishing a nature memoir on Substack at the moment, if you're interested: https://sanjidakay.substack.com/p/wilderness-book
I will definitely take a look!
Great post Kern for the clarity and an understanding of your personal (writers in general) ambitions.
I agree: do what you do and look after number one, no one else will.
I just had a light globe moment.
I would like to entertain the idea that Genre is a House ( or maybe an apartment?).
Whilst the style of Housing can be varied; to each there own tastes, it still has the basic functions of bedrooms, kitchen, living area etc. These are essential requirements everybody desires, and in Housing crisis; read shortage in late stage capitalism. People will buy no matter the style a place to live in; a place to escape the daily small absurdities of life and a place to call home.
The same for reading, I guess.
This is inspired by Epictetus:
"There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things which are beyond the power or our will. It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."
Is my metaphor suitable ?
How about.
Or if one expresses concerns a lot; the squeaky wheel will get the Oil, will be a lot or a little ? Such is life.
You can apply inspired stoicism everywhere for your sanity and over thinking.
Hahha you always write with so much Irony, Nicholas. Love it! I'm not so sure it's a matter of worrying as it is ensuring you find some kind of balance. As Sanjida says, you can write what you want, but there are consequences. If you're okay with the consequences, then write to your heart's content.
Great metaphor, Nicolas. I might have to borrow it! Although perhaps some genre 'houses' might be quite scary to walk through - holes in the top floor for horror, perhaps. I also like the quote by Epictetus. In my own work and writing I try and adopt the attitude that all I can control is my writing. I can't control what happens to it when it leaves my desk. In spite of my husband constantly asking when I'm going to get a movie deal!
You can use the metaphor Sanjida.
I am impressed with holes in the floor you saw in tghe top floor - you have something there!
Oh, If you happen to get a million dollar advance or movie deal, all I ask is for ten dollars; the compensation rate for writing that paragraph in 20 seconds.
Reasonable ?
Did you husband really say that ? I had to laugh, as my wife said something similar.
She said why don't you write a TV series?
I said I do not write TV series and what do you write again ? she said.
I write anything that touches my soul and what is that exactly ? she said unconvinced.
I want to write about personal history and experiences of a trip I am planning soon in search of the miraculous in mysterious East. It will be a long trip. I plan to travel to Egypt, India, Sri Lanka and finally to Russia, Essentuki to taste the carbonated water there.
I hope in my travels I encounter Esotericm which I have no knowledge or understanding of. So deary, I am after all still a knowledge worker; producer, creator. No different to my old corporate job except no one tells me what to do now.
Can I be your travel buddy she said, it sound like an interesting project.
I said No, you are a bad traveler and suffer from horrible jet lag.
How did that sound Sanjida ? I can write cross genre if I want to.
LOL
I think the holes suddenly appear as you're walking so you don't know if you're going to fall through or not! Deal $10 if I get a movie deal. So funny. My daughter has now started saying the same thing. She has a list - hot tub, horse...all when the movie deal happens. I think you should take your wife. It'll up the comedy factor. Scully to your Mulder?
This is such an interesting discussion, Sanjida! I think understanding genre and the conventions of different genres is important. Readers who are passionate about a genre will expect certain characteristics and moments to appear in a book or story of that type.
Thank you, Steph. I think you're right - the passionate types know what they've signed up for! Nice to meet you by the way, I'm hoping to write an article soon on fairy tales in fiction. All my thrillers are inspired by fairy tales in some way.
Nice to meet you as well! An article on fairy tales in fiction sounds interesting--I'll keep an eye out for it. Fairy tales and folktales can offer wonderful inspiration for character, setting, plot points, and even narrative techniques.
Definitley. Also they’re often riven with darkness, particularly the original Grimm’s fairy tales.
This is such an important discussion and relevant for indie authors as well—I’ve had the luck of being somewhat successful with my indie debut series which is a lower YA; I’m slowly transitioning into NA this year without moving to another pen name (since I’m still writing the same genre, just aged up). I’m a little stressed about the consequences of straying from the “clean” brand I’ve built, even as I’m doing my due diligence in labeling/categorizing my NA books properly. I’m willing to take the risk to build a different audience for the fiction I wanna write. We’ll see how that goes for me 😅
I think you're taking all the right steps, Ireen. I think you're gonna be just fine, although it's interesting that this is such a concern, even with indie authors.
Good luck Ireen. I hope it goes well for you. It sounds like you are doing everything to make it work.
I didn't attempt to publish the first book I wrote because I was afraid I'd get stuck in the YA Science Fiction genre. I then wrote a historical fiction series which is being published, but now I wonder if I can go back. I haven't made money from the series, so I will write what I am into. I enjoy emotional literary fiction, whatever the genre.
Good for you , Karen. I hope it works for you.
This is such a great post, it hit home. I like writing all kinds of things, I genre hop, from poetry to spicy shorts, and everything in between including articles on translation theory and children’s books. I was thinking of just publishing everything under my name. But now I know perhaps my idea of pen names was the right one after all. Thank you so much for sharing this.
Thank you, Sofia. I love that - genre hop. To be honest, I wish I still had my own name for all my writing. It was my publishers who insisted I changed and have a different surname for the psychological thrillers. But there are advantages to having pen names and thus separate brands too. Let us know how you get on!
Thanks!